Strangelove Lives

Ah men.

Even among the fractured and virtual doomer community, they just can’t help themselves.

Is it that patriarchy is so embedded within our psyches, we can’t see it when it smacks us in the face? Or maybe worse, that the evolutionary imperative towards reproduction is so strong that we’ll ignore what our big brains tell us and continue to make the same mistakes that guarantee our extinction?

Or is it that some of the doomers are hoping to have a shot at the founder effect? I’m living in Dr. Strangelove land here.

In the world made by James Howard Kunstler, humans survive epidemics and limited nuclear activity and go about gardening and fishing and playing music; men making all of the decisions and women acting as domestic help and sexual objects. He runs a blog to sell books and rant about financial and economic collapse.

Dmitry Orlov saw the Russian collapse up close and personal and has written about that experience as well. He’s got his own clubhouse to talk about collapse and to sell books.

Females are allowed in both clubhouses as long as we admire Dmitry’s intellect or JHK’s turn of phrase but god forbid we should have, oh say, an opinion on how women are treated post-collapse (assuming anyone survives for any length of time).
No, we are trouble makers. Feminism has no role in the post industrial world we make by hand. Feminism is a distraction. In fact, if anyone wishes to discuss rights, we have to start with the rights of animals first. And if this applied equally to the rights of MAN, I’d be okay with that starting point. But, it doesn’t.

The open and honest and, to their minds, justified dismissal of the female half of the equation is almost shocking for its lefty political incorrectness, until you realize that collapse merely removes the need for pretense.

Most of the female doomers I communicate with are under no illusions about what a collapsing and post-collapse world will mean for us. Women and children always suffer first and most.

I seriously doubt that anything is going to survive our eventual collapse; the nukes guarantee this. But if, by hook or crook, there are people who squeeze through the bottleneck and the species does go on, if those who profess to have learned from overshoot, climate change and our population growth take patriarchy with them, then the outcome after that is in no doubt at all.

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19 Responses to Strangelove Lives

  1. pauline says:

    Fantastic! Thank you for sharing this and speaking up for the other half of humanity.
    You are a true champion of equality, which is all women ever asked for.
    Having met (and read) Kunstler & Orlov (among other patriarchy wielding collapsers), I can say you hit the proverbial nail square on the head.

    My female friend and I were frankly astonished at the Age of Limits conference last week in PA when we heard Orlov wax poetic on his vision of survivalist Patriarchal communes, Roma gypsies, Hutterites, Hasidism, all founded on male dominated principles. In the Roma culture, women aren’t even considered part of the tribe until they’ve given birth and their mother in law welcomes them! You can imagine what holiday family gatherings and visits home must look like.
    Orlov seemed to believe that because these cultures had survived hundreds, even thousands of years, they were ideal and should be emulated simply because they were successful in surviving.

    Forget that it is this type of patriarchal control that most likely led to our impending doom.
    Forget that these cultures are notorious for violence against women and children (their own).
    Forget that the entire thrust of human rights, equality and sharing of power and responsibility is nowhere to be seen in these cultures.
    To embrace these malecentric, pathologically patriarchal cults (if I may be so bold) is to reject the numerous other cultures and societies where there was and is equality between the genders and are just as successful if not more.

    The most amusing part of the argument in support of patriarchy, and we heard it again at the AofL, is that men are bigger & stronger, therefore they should be in command. Genetics rule.
    If that’s not the most 12 year old, whiny, lame excuse I ever heard. It’s also scientifically incorrect. If we do take the 12 year old approach to determine who should RULE- I remind you the patriarchal argument is not about sharing power- then women/females seize the day.
    Women live longer, get sick less, multitask better, survive famine better (in collapse that’s very handy), have better distance endurance (also good for migrations), can nurse babies (yeah, try that Kunstler, and here’s a broom fer you to sweep up after yourself while you’re not nursing), and work harder… Ask anyone… Women’s work is never done… Are you done sweeping James?

    However, I, and most of my female friends are not interested in being 12 year old rulers over a harem of men (weeee’re stronger than youuu arrre). We are interested in partnerships. Sharing equally the responsibilities of survival in a world that is shifting under our feet precariously. It will take strong partnerships to make it through the bottleneck, let alone to get to bottleneck. If there IS a bottleneck. I guarantee if I get to the bottleneck and the man next to me is a patriarchal loser, my sword is going through his neck. Yes, I said my SWORD. I am a sword wielding chick who likes sharing power with sensitive guys. Imagine that?

    It’s a tragedy that we have not been able to heal the male/female wound yet in our society. This wound is what I attribute a large portion of our suffering to, where many men cannot feel safe to be tender to their wives or children or to nature, and where many women cannot feel strong enough to stand up fiercely for their human rights and their children’s human rights against their own men. I say many, because some have healed that male/female wound and developed incredible bonds, long lasting partnerships based on equality, sharing responsibilities and covering each other’s backs in hard times. This great wound and discord, again in my opinion as an observer of the human condition, led us to mountain top removal, hydrofracking, nuclear war-heads, etc…

    Simone deBeauvoir said it perfectly, and I paraphrase: Women would have risen up in revolution against anyone who would treat them the way they’ve been treated. Tragically our (women’s) enemies were our fathers, our husbands, our brothers and our sons. We cannot fight those we love. Even if they trample our bodies, hearts and minds (I added that last part). So we suffer on.

    Is it possible for us to transform our hearts now? We have so little time left to change.

    Ironically Orlov started his talk explaining how none of us would be in that room had it not been for communism, which was the original form of human organization for tens of thousands of years. Indeed, he was spot on correct, except he left out the important detail that those communes were matrilineal and female centered. Who am I to interject with factoids? I’m just the anthropologist in the room. He was loving his patriarchal clans and so I left the room. I’ve had enough of patriarchy, I’m moving on to something new.

    • igotsomethin says:

      Pauline, thanks for stopping by.

      I did not attend the conference. I’m just a reader. I was appalled at JHK’s take on a world post collapse and I’ve been reading the comments at ClubhouseOrlov and just had to jump in.

      We will not have time to transform our hearts, I don’t think.

    • leavergirl says:

      Woohoo! What a great rant! So you were the woman who walked out… 🙂
      I would love to hear what you know about those egalitarian societies who also had decent gender relations. I was told (in some anthro texts) that this was not necessarily the case. Haven’t had a chance to look into it myself, yet.

      Methinks it’s time for us women to band together and create a separate women’s culture… the way some tribes did it. I don’t mean lesbian separatists either. Women working together, spending a lot of time together, often living together as well. Um. Sisterhood is powerful. 🙂

      • igotsomethin says:

        leavergirl, Pauline is the one who walked out. And her rant here IS great!

        Totally agree with you about the separate women’s culture, though. I fantasize all of the time about a women’s collective/compound.

        Thanks for dropping by and reading!

      • pauline says:

        Sisterhood IS powerful!!!
        Orlov admitted that without realizing it, when he said we would not be in that room without it. lol!

        A simple Google search lists numerous matrilineal/matrilochal societies

        In addition to that, there’s this site with a list of current day Matrilineal cultures.
        I particularly appreciate the Nagovisi system where “Marriage is not institutionalized. If a couple is seen together, sleeps together, and the man assists the woman in her garden, for all intents and purposes they are considered married” Makes sense to me. 🙂

        These are NOT the cultures that developed mustard gas, nuclear weapons, mountain top removal, etc… They have been around for thousands of peaceful years, despite Colonization by the white beast..We should be emulating THEM! 🙂

      • leavergirl says:

        Both of your rants are wonderful! I am so glad Gail at Wits End pointed me here. 🙂

      • igotsomethin says:

        Thank you! I love Gail’s work. She’s terrific. You are a brave woman, too, commenting in the clubhouse as you have.

      • leavergirl says:

        Pauline, thank you for the links. Great stuff. There ought to be another word, though… lots of men deny matriarchies, and that word is not that useful. There have been many gynocentric societies, like ancient Crete. Women don’t “rule” like men, they share power.

        I mean, like those societies where the men sit in councils but the women choose them, and can remove them. Lance Michael Foster made a lovely comment yesterday about that on Cluborlov.

        What concerns me right now is how male-dominated the various doomer/collapsitarian venues end up being… first of all, doing the “sage on the stage” thing, talking at the audience, I am so weary of that format. And second, women’s POV gets dismissed so often. And third, when bullies pop up, there is no recourse, and things get acrimonious, usually behind the scenes (there is no process for dealing with verbal aggression). I have followed these issues with the Dark Mtn folks, in particular. How can we women emerge another way of doing things at such gatherings? If we wait for the organizers or the presenters to change, it’s just not gonna happen.

      • paulineschneider4p says:

        Also. Cameron Kelly who came with me to the Age of Limits conference was equally, if not more outraged by the patriarchal horeshit, and so started a mini protest by handing out hand written labels for people to paper clip to their shirts.
        1. F the P. (as in F*^k the Patriarchy)
        2. Equality for the End Times.

        She ran out of the labels almost instantly.
        Now I add “F#%k the Patriarchy” to nearly everything I sign especially petitions.

      • igotsomethin says:

        Fuck the patriarchy! I won’t capitalize it.

        Absolutely sickened by what I read over at boyscluborlov today. And the comments! If he isn’t sickened by his own followers, he’s got no heart or brain at all.

  2. leavergirl says:

    Orlov just joined my personal pantheon of doomer/collapsitarian women-undermining bullies, that up to now was inhabited only by Kunstler. Good to know. Let’s keep paying attention.

    Like Kelly’s improvisation very much. Let’s come prepared with lots of such things, next time.

    So glad I have this place, and Gail’s. The pain of Orlov’s aggression really hit me in the gut, so early in the morning. Hugs to you both.

  3. leavergirl says:

    Ok!!! I got censored at CO and I am done there. Saw his lame response on peakoil to you as well, Pavlina! (Hey neighbor, I am Czech.)

    Anyways… it seems to me that this whole thing needs a response. How about we write on what the role of women might be post collapse? Do we collaborate? I am moving, and not altogether sane, but I can still think. Sorta. What do you think? I would love for it to be a women’s collaboration. Would DeAnander be interested? (I’m not worthy! But I’ll ask anyways.)

    Hugs —


    • igotsomethin says:

      Vera…..I love your energy! I’m writing something that I’m not happy with yet, but it isn’t about the role of women post-collapse, because I don’t think anyone is going to survive post-collapse.

      But I would encourage the effort amongst the believers.

      • leavergirl says:

        Cute! I am not a believer. I do not believe in prophesying the future. 🙂

        But just in case there are still men and women about into the descent, it would be nice to have a vision of something else besides Kunstler’s, nah?

    • pauline says:

      YES! Let’s collaborate until we can’t. And who is sane these days? News Flash! We are ALL moving!! Very soon! 😉
      The story is still being told from a man’s perspective and we not only outnumber them, we have a different story to tell, from a different perspective and a very legitimate perspective. It must be told, because it will be the last story ever told.
      The Abyss beckons… We can go kicking and screaming, like the Orlovs of the world, or we can circle dance off the cliff with grace and courage like my Greek women ancestors did, choosing a noble death rather than slavery (in this situation, slavery to ideas that led to our demise).

      My Check sister knows of what I speak. 😉


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